Difference between revisions of "HSNCT and its Problems"
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− | <onlyinclude>The [[hsquizbowl.org|forum]] thread "'''HSNCT and its Problems'''"<ref>[https://hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=383465#p383465 HSNCT and its Problems] by [[etotheipi]] » Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:27 pm</ref> was initiated by [[Aadi Karthik]] in the lead-up to the [[2021 HSNCT]] | + | <onlyinclude>The [[hsquizbowl.org|forum]] thread "'''HSNCT and its Problems'''"<ref>[https://hsquizbowl.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=383465#p383465 HSNCT and its Problems] by [[etotheipi]] » Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:27 pm</ref> was initiated by [[Aadi Karthik]] in the lead-up to the [[2021 HSNCT]]. The thread's goal was to outline a number of issues with the logistics of [[HSNCT]] and with the operation of [[NAQT]] more generally. |
Aadi's initial post was widely criticized for its poor tone and the naivete of its arguments regarding logistics, costs, and NAQT's finances.</onlyinclude> | Aadi's initial post was widely criticized for its poor tone and the naivete of its arguments regarding logistics, costs, and NAQT's finances.</onlyinclude> |
Revision as of 12:16, 6 July 2021
The forum thread "HSNCT and its Problems"[1] was initiated by Aadi Karthik in the lead-up to the 2021 HSNCT. The thread's goal was to outline a number of issues with the logistics of HSNCT and with the operation of NAQT more generally.
Aadi's initial post was widely criticized for its poor tone and the naivete of its arguments regarding logistics, costs, and NAQT's finances.
Prologue
The 2021 season was marked by a rise in anti-NAQT sentiment among members of the high school community, largely centered around the hsquizbowl Discord. Throughout the regular season this manifested as widespread dismissal of IS sets in favor of housewrites like DART and STASH and (to some degree) the events run by AQBL. Some amount of this can be attributed to many members of the writing staff of these sets being active members of online spaces and actively proselytizing for their projects, but that behavior was not a new phenomenon. Regardless of the specific reasoning, it quickly became a popular opinion to think NAQT was uniquely bad as a quizbowl product and that the idiosyncrasies of the distribution (and in particular the mixed impure academic) were distinct negatives. Two months before HSNCT, a discussion of perceived flaws in the HSNCT set and the tournament itself in the hsquizbowl Discord culminated in the post; its opening line referenced these pseudo-private conversations by saying "this post is long overdue".
Initial post
The major points raised in the inintial post were a lack of guidelines to deal with cheating, the high cost of the tournament, the timing rules, and the supposedly low quality and variable difficulty of HSNCT questions. The post drew controversy for describing HSNCT questions as "low-quality", not "reasonable-quality product", and "of such low quality that it's hard to call NAQT 'pyramidal good quizbowl' anymore", and the decreased number of top teams attending HSNCT a "revolt". It is worth noting that the claim that NAQT is not "pyramidal good quizbowl" is objectively false.
Even as many pushed NAQT to change their timing rules and seconded the request for clarity on cheating guidelines, the remainder of the post was almost universally criticized and, in many cases, openly ridiculed. While several posters explicitly noted their openness to criticisms of NAQT and the HSNCT,[2] the only person to agree with points of the original post was Aadi, who made a post reaffirming their support of their arguments after the fact.
Arguments
The post's discussion of HSNCT's format and cost prompted many rebuttals.
Point | Counterpoint(s) |
---|---|
At $650 HSNCT was "far too expensive", particularly when compared to NSC ($450) and ONCT ($250) |
|
HSNCT's price was not justified because it only guaranteed 8 rounds, while tournaments like SMH Southeast had 9 and NSC had 13 |
|
HSNCT's use of double elimination is outdated and bad in comparison to a format using rebracketing; few tournaments still use double elimination. |
|
NAQT should simply restrict its field size to make change to a different format possible. | While it's not an absurd idea that HSNCT limit its field to allow a better format, it would require cutting the majority of the field to implement this change - to have a format like NSC, one requires a field like NSC. The current format of HSNCT (with its split prelims on the card system and the double-elim playoffs) is the only reason it can be run at its current size, let alone expand (as it has historically done). |
NAQT should release its packets for free after they are clear, as is done with housewrites. |
|
The discussion of difficulty received less scrutiny, as that is largely a subjective assessment. However, it was pointed out that the post's statement that one bonus was significantly harder than another was largely based on database hits (a method that is known to be flawed[3]); furthermore, several posters disagreed with the conclusion.[4]
The discussion of the mixed academic question on "souls" was largely invalidated because the poster lacked the awareness to know that the question's leadin (Sam & Dave's song Soul Man) easily met various criteria of importance. The use of phrase "boomer trash" to describe that clue was criticized both for being incorrect and for being a dismissive form of gatekeeping.
Aftermath
None of these counterpoints were ever addressed publicly, with any discussion that did occur happening in the hsquizbowl Discord (effectively out of the public eye) or in truly private channels.
After HSNCT, Kevin Wang made an inflammatory post asking whether Aadi still believed in any of the points made in the original post, in particular criticizing the seeming hypocrisy of him attending HSNCT with his Lambert team (and performing well) after making the post. The response doubled down on the arguments regarding cost, prompting a final rebuttal by Patrick Matthews.[5]
The sentiments that led to the writing of the post persisted (and may continue to persist) long after - in a Discord discussion held after the final post in the thread, individuals claimed that "its a general consensus" that NAQT questions didn't meet modern standards[6][7] and that NAQT should just consider doing college mirrors of HSNCT[8]. High schoolers continued to not understand the economics of quizbowl in general and NAQT in particular: claims were made that NAQT was not "even close to losing money" due to Buzzword,[9] that NAQT should make HSNCT at a loss,[10] that NAQT was not trying hard enough to lower prices,[11] and that NAQT doesn't pay a lot for rooms.[12]
References
- ↑ HSNCT and its Problems by etotheipi » Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:27 pm
- ↑ Re: HSNCT and its Problems by jonpin » Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:43 pm
- ↑ Database Hits Do Not Determine Difficulty by Adventure Temple Trail » Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:02 pm
- ↑ Re: HSNCT and its Problems by Santa Claus » Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:40 am
- ↑ Re: HSNCT and its Problems by matthewspatrick » Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:38 pm
- ↑ some of the questions just aren't up to the standard that we have in quiz bowl now days
- ↑ i believe its a general consensus
- ↑ for example, maybe naqt could seek college mirrors of hsnct? smh will likely be paying both its writers and editors pretty decently, and this is why
- ↑ I don’t think NAQT is even close to losing money, given the revenue Buzzword generates
- ↑ you can still make overpriced things at a loss
- ↑ this does not necessarily mean that naqt is maliciously raising their price! it just means that they are possibly not putting enough attention into getting costs down
- ↑ to be fair, it's really unlikely that it costs a lot for naqt to pay for rooms