Talk:Tuhin Chakraborty
From Tuhin:
Paragraph 1: I spoke to the tournament staff before entering this tournament. They explicitly gave me the all-clear provided that my team consisted of college students, which we were. Being part of a specific Quizbowl club was not required. This is not misbehavior. Therefore, please remove this paragraph.
Paragraph 3: I committed no fraud at any point in time. I also make it very clear in my forum response that my motivations were not to minimize and invalidate my teammate (you misquote me here), I just made an honest mistake because I never heard from her during the tournament. I have already apologized to everyone involved. Additionally, I have already stated in my response that ACF and UM Quizbowl have investigated the matter and made no accusations of fraud, lying, etc. If you can find a more reputable source that says otherwise (doubtful, since ACF ran the tournament in question), you need to remove this paragraph. You cite no sources whatsoever here and this section is particularly defamatory.
Paragraph 4: Read my forum response here. I have already demonstrated how the reporter tampered and manipulated evidence regarding their forum post. Unless you can prove otherwise, please remove your words concerning my " previous history of toxic and misogynistic behavior."
Paragraph 5: What false statements regarding ACF, NAQT, and UM Quizbowl? You don't cite any sources to back yourself up on this claim and you should remove this sentence because it itself is false. Also, I made it pretty clear that I defined the reporter's sharing of my personal message as foul and petty, NOT her reporting my alleged misconduct. Please rephrase.
Fixed
I edited the page Tuhin Chakraborty to present a more balanced picture of what happened.
Essentially
A: Tuhin dropped a player from the roster of 2020 ACF Winter. Was this "the brilliance of Tuhin" or an "honest mistake"? I tend to believe in the latter.
B: Tuhin was misogynistic toward his victim. This DID happen, and deserves to be mentioned.
Further necessary changes
From Tuhin:
Thank you for a more balanced portrayal of the incident. However, more needs to be done. Regarding your section titled packet submission affair, where exactly online did you see that I "changed [my] mind" and all that? Please cite relevant sources if you see that this information is online. I forgot to mention this in my initial complaints, but I believe that this section violates the QBwiki privacy policy because it comes from deep within my DMs. Literally all that happened was that I decided to join the tournament late (after the packet submission deadline), so I was put on the C team. Respectfully, your apology section isn't correct: I apologized for leaving someone off the roster, not this. I'm not even sure this is a violation or a wrong of any sorts...
Removed "packet submission affair"
From Shiva:
Upon re-reading the forum posts in question, I think the entire packet submission affair is essentially not a big deal, so I removed the section.
I also moved the apology down to the relevant paragraph.
Comments
I have no problems with changing the article to incorporate a more objective presentation of the discussion as it happened, as it was fairly biased before, but in its current state the article has been erased of much of its actual substance and I will be editing to correct it accordingly.
Shiva:
- Thanks for your edits. Overall, I think parts of the article read better; however, this has come at the cost of the actual content. I do not agree with the choice to omit information (that is relevant or otherwise reasonable) from the article. The section of playing on a team unaffiliated with the Michigan team felt very reasonable to leave, if not in the "Misconduct" section. More egregiously, I do not think you should have removed direct quotes of/about Tuhin from the article. Those are things that were both verifiably said and otherwise inaccessible to the public - to remove them is to whitewash the record and to privilege Tuhin's opinion over that of the person who accused them. Considering that you explicitly stated here that you believe your own interpretation of events to be more accurate than what was literally written in the thread I do not think you ought to be making such sweeping redactions.
- Additionally, I will note that you can sign your posts with ~~~~, which is the convention for talk pages.
Tuhin:
- I notice that you have also cited no sources, either here or in any previous discussions, in support your position on the veracity of various statements. While there is little to be lost by believing your statements regarding 2019 Terrapin, I see no reason to categorically assume that you are acting in the interests of the community by attempting to correct the record, considering your behavior in the relevant incident and the ensuing forum discussions.
- In response to your comments on Paragraph 4, I assert that no further evidence of your "previous history of toxic and misogynistic behavior" are needed than your posts themselves and further, that inclusion of direct quotes of said posts is sufficient to prove this to the general audience.
-Kevin Wang (talk) 22:59, 21 May 2021 (CDT)
I really don't think that the QBwiki is the best place for so much detail on this incident; the HSQB misconduct forum makes much more sense and is closer to the actual posts/source material. A shorter summary seems more appropriate with links to more details in the forums.
- A summary is not needed on the forums, as it is sufficient to read the threads in question. An overly concise summary here would necessarily leave out information that can only be accessed by people with forum accounts, as it is in the misconduct forum. Thus, this article preserves as much of the contents of those posts as possible.
-Kevin Wang (talk) 13:24, 23 May 2021 (CDT)
I also think this is an excessive level of detail and should be pared down significantly. It's fine (indeed, probably better) for this article to not have every detail that the forums contain; it would suffice for this article to contain the key points along with information about where details can be found, and it also seems fine that an account (a free, easily creatable one!) is necessary to get all those details. —Jonah (talk) 14:40, 11 September 2021 (CDT)
- Sure, I can do this. Kevin Wang (talk) 07:56, 19 October 2021 (CDT)
- As per the instructions given at User_talk:Tuhin_Chakraborty, you were not allowed to make changes to your own page. Because you did this anyway, I reverted the changes.
- George Tagtmeier (talk) 19:34, 22 November 2021 (CST)
QBWiki Usage Talk pages are not supposed to be deleted. Please do not delete what I write. I messed up restoring it, but it should be fixed now.
George Tagtmeier (talk) 19:46, 27 November 2021 (CST)
I apologize for deleting what you said, I wanted to delete my earlier statements (which, according QBwiki rules, I have the right to do because I am their sole author). I have restored my objections below (they were deleted for some reason) since they should be on this page and violate no wiki rules.
I appreciate much of the false and deeply harmful content finally being removed. My remaining concerns with the article are as follows:
1. The page makes the unfair and false implication that I excluded a teammate to get a discount. This simply isn’t true. I stated on the forums that ACF and Michigan Quizbowl concluded that I just made an honest mistake in leaving the teammate off the roster without anything to prove financial motivation/intent. Please add in these forum details to present a more unbiased representation of events. Since forum posts are clearly the standard of evidence for this article, this should not be a problem. As someone who has never held a financial stake in Michigan Quizbowl and was never on leadership, these fraud claims continue to perplex me.
2. This page accuses me of spreading numerous falsehoods. What I say in my forum posts was backed by my proceedings from ACF, NAQT, and other sources and I made that clear on the forums. It is not fair to treat the statements of other community members as fact while dismissing mine without outside evidence (i.e. I don’t see anything other than HSQB forums and QBwiki on this page’s references). If people disagree with what I say and/or how I say it, that’s fine. However, that doesn’t make me a liar. Erik himself characterized his post as part of a “he-said/she-said” so why he is being used to call me a liar in the table is beyond me.
3. Accordingly, bottom table is still largely a collection of out-of-context details and falsehoods. To cite just one specific example, one of the top rows says that I “lied to ACF” (again, ACF never concluded this) because I “confirmed that [I] knew that the player was there.” I literally say the exact opposite in my forum statement-that the circumstances led me to assume that my teammate was NOT participating at the time. As Jonah and others hint at above, why not just keep a link to the forums instead so viewers can come to their own conclusions? This is especially important to consider since this page’s creator has previously indicated on the forums that he wished to create Google-able content about me specifically to degrade me in front of admissions officers and employers. That's just wrong and I'm not sure he is the most impartial person for this as a result. I have already sent an apology to HSQB staff for the tone of my forum responses because they were indeed aggressive since I felt attacked and emotionally harmed as a result of all the unnecessary public shaming that was occurring at the time- I am sorry I did not react more constructively. I hope you all find it in yourselves to make this page more balanced.
Tuhin Chakraborty (talk) 0:47, 28 November 2021 (EST)